SetSail » The Right Boat

Advantages of British Weather

Steve Dashew — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 19:21:05 +0000

We’ve been thinking about the advantages of British weather. For one thing, folks from the Pacific Northwest of the US feel right at home. Then there is the British penchant for high end foul weather gear which supports a plethora of suppliers and pays for R and D which benefits the rest of us. History buffs may recall that the island geography and industrial revolution are credited with the push to create the British Empire. But we have a different theory. You will note that the territories of the Empire all had better weather than the home country.

Of course there are occasional rainbows to liven things up and herald a momentary ray of sunshine.

And the advantage of never having to go to the dock to fill the water tanks if you are set up to catch water off your deck. But the biggest advantage may just be how good it feels to get on your boat and go somewhere warm and dry.

Cruising Boat Choices

Steve Dashew — Tue, 10 Jun 2003 05:00:00 +0000

Dear Steve:

Thanks so much for your various books. I just finished devouring Practical Seamanship. I have gained greatly from reading and practicing the insights shared, particularly sail balancing and heavy weather techniques. When read in conjunction with the video’s, the books are even more informative.

I presently have a 461 Beneteau. I like it very much. My wife thinks it is a bit too sporty & light. We use it for coastal crusing (West coast). We are in the beginning process of evaluating boats which are better designed/ suited for passage making. Like most everyone, we would like to sail BEOWULF, or its equivilent, but it is not likely to ever be in reach of our budget. I personally would like a Sundeer 64, but it is uncertain whether one would become available, or be affordable. As with so many others who have written before me, I am seeking advice to help with my quest.

We are looking to spend $400-500,000. I had been thinking of the Amel Super Maramu 53, but after comparing its hull design to that of the Sundeers/Deerfoots, it appears more suited to light conditions. Others we have considered seemed a bit too beamy and/or had keel/rudder designs which were not conducive to surfing. Any thoughts on production/semi-custom boats that we should focus on? My inclination would be toward a ketch, but I’d be happy with a cutter rig.

Thanks again for sharing so much and considering my questions. Linda has been quite an inspiration for my wife, who really only likes warm days with the wind behind the beam.–Mark

Hi Mark: Thanks for the nice comments–you must be a fast reader!

The used Sundeer 64s seem to go for around +/- $700,000. The 56/60 Sundeers for a little less. Some of the smaller Deerfoot designs are available in your budget range. However, as you have indicated, there are not a great lot of these on the brokerage market.

The Amels have a good reputation–but I suspect as you’ve indicated, they are probably not good surfing boats. As to what else to suggest…there are so many choices and trade-offs it is hard to know what to advise.

I think the best approach is to have an open mind. My preference is to get a boat which has a good structure first, then go for waterline, and of course moderate proportions. If the decor is not right, or the systems hard to get at or not well done, keep in mind that these types of things can be changed and/or upgraded and often the overall cost of the project will be less if you buy a boat which needs work–and then change things to suit yourself.

As to single stick or split rig, it is usually better to go with a single sticker as long as you can handle it. Size is not so much an issue as overall boat design. Generally, in anything under 60 feet or so, I generally favor the sloop or cutter configuartion–but of course this depends on the power and of the design and size of the rig.

Sorry I can’t be more specific–but there are so many choices–which of course is what makes this fun! Good Luck–Steve Dashew

Mac 65 for Australia and New Zealand

Steve Dashew — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000

I have recently seen a Macgregor 65 which has been set up for cruising for two people with a smaller rig and deeper draft. I am wondering if you have any knowledge of the capabilities these boats have for cruising. This boat has only been used for cruising the West Coast of America and Baja. Hope you can help. Thanks in advance. Bye for now. Brent G.

PS – I would be using this boat mostly for cruising between Australia and New Zealand and to the South Pacific Islands.

Hi Brent: The Macgregor 65 is an interesting concept. Assuming that there is sufficient ultimate stability to get you back upright after a capsize, the only question I would want to examine closely was structural integrity.

You are cruising in the best part of the world, but also in one of the areas with the worst weather. The coasts of Australia and the Tasman Sea can develop truly awful weather very quickly – as I’m sure you know. So, you will want a boat that can deal with adversity and get you home safely. The length to beam ratios make the Mac 65 an easy boat to drive and it should track better than fat boats. But you need to make sure of the structural capability of all of the elements which contribute to your safety! – Steve

Gulfstar Sailmaster 47

Steve Dashew — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000

We are considering buying a Gulfstar 47 Sailmaster and are interested in your comments concerning the Sailmaster 50. I.E. that it was never intended for world cruising and its lack of performance. Friends that own these 47′s claim the boat sails great (at least the sloop rig) and it does quite well in heavy weather. Any comments regarding sloop versus ketch rigs? Please be specific about why you feel this way as I’m very interested in this boat – as you said, there is massive space and livability.

Hi Gordon: Tough question. Without seeing a stability curve for the Sailmasters I’d be hard pressed to comment on their suitability. And then there is the whole question of what is your definition of heavy weather? I would guess that as long as you had no structural or systems problem, i.e., the boat was under control and sound, that you could deal with moderate heavy weather. But I suspect that the range of positive stability might not be as great as might be ideal for severe conditions. There’s a lot of boat up high and not a huge amount of draft or ballast to offset it.

On the performance front, the boat will be slow to weather, and sluggish in light airs. But that definition fits a lot of cruising boats. So it’s a question of if you want to trade the space for the performance. For local sailing, maybe doing the East Coast, and working your way down island this is not going to be a huge problem.

One of my concerns would be the basic structure, keel, steering, and rig integrity. As you pointed out, these boats are typically not thought of in context of thousands of blue water miles. A good survey, and a check of the history of the boats will shed some light on this subject.

Of course you can motor in the light winds and to weather.

To get the same interior space and good heavy weather ability plus boat speed you would need to go longer. So there are some benefits to the configuration. It is just a question to how you weigh the pros and cons. Good Luck! – Steve

Beneateaus for Offshore – short-handed rigging

Steve Dashew — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000

Dear Dashews: A quite wonderful website. The most interesting and informative I have ever come across in any field of interest. I shall certainly be buying some or all of your books. In the meantime, a word of advice, if you have time: I noted your comments about one of the Beneteau designs. First question: do you have a view as to the suitability of the Oceanis 473 for deepwater cruising? It seems to me to be quite a lot of boat for the money in this part of the world (UK) – compared for instance with the clearly excellent but extremely pricey Hallberg-Rassey equivalent. Second question: conceivably you might think single-handed offshore cruising to be inadvisable, but would the 473 lend itself to that, if suitably set up? Third question: do you rate the boom furling equipment now available? – I am thinking in particular of a New Zealand design the name of which I have forgotten but have seen in action. It seems pretty handy and of course permits a a fully-battened main with a decent roach. With kind regards and deep admiration, Neil

Hi Neil: 1-All of the high volume light displacement (charter inspired) designs have certain advantages and shortcomings. On the plus side, they cost less to build and offer a lot of interior room – and they don’t sail that badly in protected waters. However, in heavy weather they are difficult to control, and often have problems with capsize recovery. There are a couple of reports from the MAIB in the UK in our Surviving the Storm on this subject. I’m not sure I would want to be stuck in a fall gale in Biscay or a Norther in the Gulf Stream in one of these boats. But good seamanship (and luck) will overcome a lot.

2-We look at single handing and sailing as a couple in the same light – one person has to be able to do it all. You can easily do this without getting overly fancy – we prefer slab reefing to any of the integral systems – on a boat of the size range you are discussing (or substantially larger).

3-I have no direct experience with in boom or in mast furling gear, and have been able to dissuade all of our clients from going in that direction. However, there are apparently some good systems out there. But you do need to use it carefully or fouls will result (boom angle to the wind and the horizontal angle are both important). Good Luck – Steve

Hans Christian Mark 11

Steve Dashew — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000

DEAR STEVE, I’VE BEEN LOOKING AT SOME HANS CHRISTIAN MARK 2 CUTTERS, AND HAVE COME ACROSS A VESSEL 21 YEARS OLD, REFITTED WITH NEW RIGGING AND ELECTRIC’S PLUS RADAR ETC. IN 2001, THE LIST GOES ON AND ON. (VERBAL! BUT INVENTORY PLUS SURVEY IN 2001 ON ITS WAY.) SHE WAS BUILT FOR THE PRESENT OWNER. THE PRICE IS WITHIN MY RANGE BUT SLIGHTLY HIGHER THAN MANY OF HER STABLE OF THE SAME VINTAGE. INFORMATION LEADS ME TO BELIEVE THAT THAT SHE’S IN EXCELLENT CONDITION ( A NEW SURVEY WOULD BE FIRST ON THE LIST). I’VE GONE THROUGH THE Q & A AND SO ON BUT NO MENTION OF HANS CHRISTIAN’S. YOUR ENCYCLOPEDIA PLUS CD IS ON ITS WAY AND THERE SHALL PROBABLY BE SOMETHING IN IT. HOWEVER YOUR OPINION IS IMPORTANT TO ME AND I CAN’T WAIT. I’M SURE YOU’VE COME ACROSS THEM IN YOUR TRAVELS. THEIR A RARITY IN OZ, MAINLY DUE TO THEIR COST (OZ SHOULD’VE STAYED ON THE GOLD STANDARD ! AYN RAND WAS RIGHT !) PLUS THE FACT THAT ONLY 900 HAVE BEEN BUILT SINCE THE COMPANY’S FORMATION IN 1980. MY QUESTION IS IN 2 PARTS. (1) WHAT DO YOU THINK OF HANS CHRISTIANS ? (2) SHE IS IN THE NORTH-WEST AND I’D LIKE TO HIRE A SKIPPER TO DELIVER HER TO SYDNEY AND TRAVEL MYSELF AS SUPER CARGO. I’D NO DOUBT LEARN SOMETHING AND MAY EVEN BE OF ASSISTANCE. (MY HEALTH IS STILL VERY IFFY). WHAT WOULD THE CHARGE FOR A PROFESSIONAL TO DO A JOB LIKE THIS ? A MEDIAN FIGURE ? EVEN A BALL PARK FIGURE! WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE SOME IDEA. HOPE YOU’VE TIME TO HELP ME WITH THIS AS I’VE ALWAYS LOVED THE OLD WORLD CHARM OF THESE BOATS. CHARM DOESN’T FLOAT ! REGARDS TO YOU, ANTONY M

Hi Anthony: We’ve seen a number of the HCs out cruising – there have been a lot of them built. The basic issue is structural and system soundness. If that is OK, and you love the design concept, and the price is right, the boat should be fine.

That said, this design type is not what I would select. TOo much external wood which is non-functional, and heavy. It is just there for appearance. And I prefer a more modern underbody and fins.

But the key thing is to go cruising, and do it in a boat which is not only sound, but which makes your heart sing when you look at her.

Re delivery skippers, costs vary all over. I would guess you should expect to pay anything from $1.00 a mile up to maybe $2.00. But I am not very up on this service. I would also check on shipping as deck cargo. In the end, this might turn out to be less costly, when you consider the wear and tear aspects of the journey on cost. Good luck – Steve

Early Peterson IOR Design

Steve Dashew — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000

Hi Steve, I’ve read your Offshore Cruising Encyclopedia and Surviving the Storm ( both are fantastic) and have some questions about a particular boat I’m considering. It’s a 78 Doug Peterson design, 43′ IOR. It’s beamy (13′ 3"), 7′ 9" draft, 17,500 #’s with 9,000#’s ballast, fin keel, spade rudder. No trunk cabin or pilothouse. I read in the encyclopedia your warnings about "later" IOR boats……does this qualify? I’ve been unable to personally view the boat and can only rely on pictures, but it seems to have more in common with your designs in terms of hull shape and lines than, for instance, Neil Hunter’s Farr 40 Around Alone boat (it was for sale awhile back). Not near as shallow as the Farr. The Peterson has what appears to be a relatively fine bow/entry angle, a bit more overhang there than I’d like though. The big draw for me is the fact that it’s aluminum construction (the interior is somewhat spartan/exposed, and resembles the longitudinal and athwartships framing from your designs) and would afford me more piece of mind in terms of any changes and/or additions I would make in the future. It also appears to have more in the way of topsides than later IOR’s. I have a number of other questions, but I’ll stop for now. Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Jeff

Hi Jeff: This sounds like one of the boats built by Carl Eichenlaub? By early IOR I typically refer to the first generation S and S boats, and similar. These boats had displacement-length ratios closer to the CCA designs, deeper canoe bodies, and modest beams (albeit beamier than CCA) and hence relatively balanced lines.

I don’t clearly recall the shape of the early Peterson boats, but my recollection is that they had a reputation for being tough to control downwind in strong breezes. I could be wrong on this.

Probably a good boat in light to moderate conditions–most race boats of this era were optimized for light airs. However, it would be hard for me to comment accurately on the boat in a blow without seeing her or sailing on the boat. – Steve

Hardin Force 50

Steve Dashew — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000

I recently looked at a 1972 Hardin Force 50 to purchase. She has seen considerable blue water and appears to be a comfortable liveaboard. Some cosmetic work is needed, along with new sails. While I intend to have a complete survey done, I want to learn what I can about the vessel construction and/or design before jumping in. There doesn’t seem to be much info out there–can you help me? Thanks.

Hi Patricia: Be sure to get a very thorough and detailed survey, including all of the structure, systems, and rigging. Many of these older Taiwanese builds left a lot to be desired in the quality and detail department. This is usually reflected in the price. Just be sure you know what you are getting into, and that the boat is suitable for your needs. Good Luck – Steve

Formosa 36

Steve Dashew — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000

Dear sailor friends, I recently saw a lovely 36 foot Formosa Ketch I am dreaming to acquire and get sparkling again. The woodwork needs some care. The hull looks sound as far as I can see above water. But before I get the boat hauled out, do you know of any problems with this boat, that was apparently built in 1980 in Taiwan, with 1-inch-thick fiberglass. Do you know anything about this type of boat, since I found no information in all my books and very little on the web. Thank you, Helmut S

Hi Helmut: With any boat that is 25 years old you have to do a careful survey. These vessels were built at the beginning of the boat building learning curve in Taiwan and the Taiwanese vessels in general of that era had many quality issues. These may have been corrected by previous owners. Or they may be waiting for you. Take care!

One area to look at in detail is the quality of the timber and plywood. There used to be a lot of low-grade glue in some of the ply and structures and dry rot problems.

In the end, it comes down to price, condition, and how much time (or money) you are willing to put into the project–and if they balance out. Good Luck – Steve

Spray 40′ (Joshua Slocum)

Steve Dashew — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000

Dear Steve: A question if I may, in regards the suitability of the "Bruce Roberts designed Spray 40" (Joshua Slocum) for coastal and world cruising? Since I know more about lock & key’s I cannot cross-reference the design style to other brands your Q & A page refers to. I have just received your Offshore Cruising Encyclopedia as an ideal Christmas gift, which is how I come to visit your site. We have already taken our 12-year plan and crunched it into an "ASAP" plan as a result of a sad loss, and I have elected to take some advice given out on your site by joining a local race club, which leads myself to second question if I can push my luck. Can a person who knows more about lock & key’s, and has no sailing experience at the age of 45, safely pursue a circumnavigation dream with a family? With Thanks, David

Hi David: I am not familiars with the details of Joshua Slocum’s Spray beyond having read his wonderful book many years ago. The Spray shape generates a lot of volume in a short length. However, this is not going to be as easy to self-steer, or handle in heavy weather as a longer, narrower design. Nor will it be as weatherly as a boat with a more developed keel (or deeper draft).

Having said that, I would guess that the Spray design would be easy to build.

Now as to your second question–of course you can safely pursue offshore sailing and a circumnavigation. The main thing is to devote sufficient time to getting yourself up-to-speed on seamanship and weather skills.

There is always a conflict between getting your personal lives in order and the boat ready, with the skills which are essential. Usually the latter get short-shift. Our own feeling is that those skills, which will have a big impact on your success, should be put at the top of the list! Seamanship and weather–and then learning how to handle your boat in heavy weather.

One final thought–spend as little as possible and keep the boat as simple as possible to start. Then, once you have real world experience, start to decide what you really want on board. Almost everything you decide in the absence of real world experience will turn out to be wrong! Good Luck – Steve